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Unfortunately we have been ripped off by QuiddiHub.co.uk (Quiddi Hub Ltd, 3rd Floor, 207 Regent Street, London, UK. W1B 3HH. Company number 07475476) . This blog will outline exactly what happened, and will hopefully serve as a warning to other affiliates considering dealing with this scam network. There are a lot of mentions of ‘spoke on skype’ etc. These all refer to text chat rather than voice calls. So of course we have full records of these. Every email has been archived also and can easily be proved too.
On June 18th, 2014 we were contacted by Ben Lachenal from Quiddi. He wanted to discuss my company sending payday loan leads to the Quiddi Network.
On June 24th, 2014 I started sending payday leads to Quiddi to see how they would perform. It was obvious to start with that the leads were earning less on Quiddi than they were where I was currently sending them – if I kept up this deal I would be losing money every single day. I spoke to Ben Lachenal on Skype regarding this and he said:
“i get what you’re saying. If you can send 100 leads per day and over, I’ll set a guarantee that you’ll get £7.50 EPL (minimum). ”
We were happy earning a guaranteed £7.50 per submitted lead if we sent 100 leads or more per day and we continued to push leads via the Quiddi Hub network.
On June 30th 2014 we spoke to Ben on Skype and he confirmed that all was well.
On July 4th 2014 we sent an email to Ben Lachenal querying why stats in the Quiddi Hub login were only showing sales made and not number of applications. Clearly if we were being paid £7.50 per LEAD then we needed to know how many leads were being processed.
On July 5th 2014 another email was sent to Ben querying the above.
July 5th 2014 – further email sent to Ben querying when this will be fixed. Ben replied back stating only :
“Commission from yesterday: £1,412.80.”
This clearly could not be correct – £1,412.80 does not divide by £7.50. An email was sent back to Ben pointing out that this was obviously incorrect, and that if we didn’t get a satisfactory answer we would be stopping any leads going to Quiddi the following day.
On 6th July 2014 we received this email from Ben Lachenal:
“Yes, very frustrating about the reporting function. Slight delay as we’re pushing tech to add more features. It will be back first thing in the morning. As for the commission not dividing my £7.50, this is because we aren’t buying all at that amount. Some are higher, some are less, but we’ve now got access to tiers that will ensure by month end that the EPL averages out to this amount. ”
This makes no sense whatsoever – he agreed we would be paid £7.50 per lead, so we need the reporting to reflect this so we can see what our actual income is. An email was sent back to Ben pointing this out:
I don’t understand what you mean with not buying them all at that amount. We were very clear that it was 7.50 a go so it should be a very simple calculation for what we are owed.
On July 7th 2014 we received this email from Ben Lachenal which included this quote:
“As for your leads you sent last week, of course we are still more than happy to honour the £7.50 offer.”
On July 14th we spoke to Ben on Skype and he confirmed that he has been talking to his bosses regarding a further bonus dependant on volume of leads.
On July 20th, 2014 this email was sent to Ben:
“”hi, i’ve updated the payment info can you please confirm that you have everything you need there. And also that the amount sent at the end of the month will be 2765 x 7.50 = 20,737.50, plus 221.26 in commission that was made without hitting 100 leads/day, = 20,958.76 total”
Those numbers above refer to £7.50 per lead. ie at this point we were owed £20,958 in total.
We still hadn’t heard from Ben by the 23rd July 2014 so sent another email to follow it up. Bens response was:
“I’ll check for you when I can. I was waiting to hear back from you about your traffic but we keep hitting a dead end it seems…”
Later on in the same day, Ben replied again with:
“Yep, looks fine that. Please remember that you’re on standard agreement at the moment, so most of your commission is due on the last day of August. “
On July 30th 2014 Ben checked via Skype if we had added bank details to their system for tomorrows payment. We confirmed that we had; Ben then checked it and confirmed that it was correct.
On July 31st 2014 we should have been paid for all of the traffic sent in June 2014. This was roughly £7000.
On August 7th, we sent an email to Ben asking we why we had not been paid.
On August 8th, 2014 Ben said he was looking into the non payment.
On August 12th we emailed Ben again to follow this up as we had heard nothing from him since.
This Skype conversion then took place:
[12/08/2014 10:38:31] Ben : Hi ME. You should have received a payment of £2,930.12 on the last monthly payment run?
[12/08/2014 10:38:51] Ben : which was the commission generated in June
[12/08/2014 12:46:16] ME: Can you please explain how you’re getting £2,930, as that is completely disregarding the whole £7.50 per lead thing
[12/08/2014 12:52:21] Ben : sorry – was on a call. £2,930 is reflective of the actually quality of your data. Any bonuses will be added on top
[12/08/2014 12:52:56] ME: surely the agreed amount of 7.50 per lead should have been paid with the rest of it, not at some random undisclosed date further down the line?
[12/08/2014 12:53:51] Ben : We can’t re-structure the tree just for a handful of leads, sorry. If you want your leads to each be bought for exactly £7.50, then I’m not sure how that would be possible. i need to put something in place more long term though.
[12/08/2014 12:54:38] ME: that doesn’t make any sense. the original agreement was for leads to be bought for 7.50 / each, assuming we delivered over 100 per day. which we done.
[12/08/2014 12:54:46] ME: so you’ve drastically under paid us for that period
[12/08/2014 12:55:03] Ben : Not sure you’re reading me right. How were you underpaid sorry?
[12/08/2014 12:55:26] ME: you said you’d pay us £7.50 per lead. you didn’t do it. I’m not sure how you can’t see that.
[12/08/2014 12:56:18] Ben : We can’t affect how your EPL performs on its own, any bonuses will have to be added on top
[12/08/2014 12:56:45] ME: ok, fair enough. so why wasn’t it added and sent with the other money on the date we were meant to be paid?
[12/08/2014 12:57:01] Ben : I’m waiting to hear back. There will be a reason though
[12/08/2014 12:57:12] Ben : any chance we could discuss something more long term now?
[12/08/2014 12:57:33] Ben : seems all one sided at the mo – it’d be nice to have a bit of scalability
[12/08/2014 12:57:45] ME: after you’ve missed a payment, then sent it a week later thousands short?
[12/08/2014 12:58:02] ME: Not really interested in dealing with further leads until the first lot are sorted.
[12/08/2014 12:58:15] Ben : I’ll have to wait to find out exactly what happened
[12/08/2014 12:58:28] Ben : we don’t miss payments unless there’s a really good reason..
[12/08/2014 12:58:38] ME: ok
[12/08/2014 12:59:31] Ben : I can only assume that the account details are correct? And that your name matches the name on your Quiddi account?
[12/08/2014 12:59:48] ME: all the corporate info is listed there, Redacted Ltd
[12/08/2014 12:59:55] Ben : just checking to make sure the basics are sorted
On August 13th we spoke to Ben via Skype and he said the reason we weren’t paid was because they cannot send money from online banking to the country our company is incorporated in.
On August 18th we followed up the non-payment again with Ben:
18/08/2014 12:30:03] ME: So whats the deal with this money then. More than half way through August and we’ve still not been paid.
[18/08/2014 12:32:20] Ben : Hi ME. I’m good ta. We don’t pay mid-month – you’re on a monthly payment sched
[18/08/2014 12:33:14] ME: you’re having a laugh surely. You didn’t pay me last month. You can’t not pay and then say ‘we only pay mid month’
[18/08/2014 12:35:51] Ben : The outstanding commission in the portal was paid late, which I’ve explained and again we apologies
[18/08/2014 12:35:57] ME: it wasn’t paid at all.
[18/08/2014 12:36:03] ME: and the amount you were trying to pay was wrong.
[18/08/2014 12:36:08] Ben : the £3k +?
[18/08/2014 12:36:11] ME: yes
[18/08/2014 12:36:15] Ben : that didn’t go in?
[18/08/2014 12:36:22] ME: no, i already told you that last week
[18/08/2014 12:36:34] ME: and whether it did or didn’t go in, it wasn’t the right number anyway
[18/08/2014 12:36:40] Ben : yes but since then I had confirmation that it was paid directly in a bank
[18/08/2014 12:37:11] ME: ah okay, nobody told me that. so i assume it was the correct amount then, and not the £2900 or whatever it was?
[18/08/2014 12:37:43] Ben : ME, we need to discuss something more long term here – that was the whole point of the bonus
[18/08/2014 12:38:08] Ben : this is what I’ve been trying to do for the last month but it’s been difficult to have that conversation as you’re not willing to commit
[18/08/2014 12:38:46] Ben : i had legal draw up a proposal that would have guaranteed profit for the both of us but I haven’t been given the chance to even discuss it
[18/08/2014 12:39:02] ME: you’re refusing to pay me. and you question why i’m uninterested in discussing further leads coming your way…
[18/08/2014 12:39:19] Ben : We’re not refusing to pay you
[18/08/2014 12:40:02] Ben : before the payments were even due you were refusing to send leads again
[18/08/2014 12:40:30] Ben : I’m just keen to discuss something more long term that’s all
[18/08/2014 12:40:35] ME: thats my choice – I can send leads wherever I like, whenever I like. What you can’t do is just miss payment dates, don’t bother telling me, then apparently send wrong amounts
[18/08/2014 12:41:11] Ben : we’re able to offer a reasonable EPL and a bonus incentive too – this is what I’ve been trying to discuss
[18/08/2014 12:42:02] ME: i really can’t be any clearer with this – we’re not going to send more leads, or waste time discussing more leads, while you’re defaulting on owed payments, and then just generally messing us around
[18/08/2014 12:42:10] ME: i’m off for now, nothing else to discuss here. cya
[18/08/2014 12:42:54] ME: Blocked Ben
It seems ridiculous to say “Hi ME. I’m good ta. We don’t pay mid-month – you’re on a monthly payment sched” when it was their own fault we hadn’t been paid on the monthly schedule as agreed.
On August 19th, an email from Ben confirmed that payment has been sent, but complaining I haven’t been willing to discuss sending them further leads. Also it further confirmed that we are owed £7.50 per lead sent in June.
On August 19th 2014, £2930 arrived in our bank account. This was under half of what we were owed, and 20 days late. An email was sent to Ben querying this.
Roumteen Tavakoli-Keshe from Quiddi
On August 20th, 2014 we received a random email from Roumteen Tavakoli-Keshe at Quiddi which included the following points.
“I came across your site whilst looking for potential partners. It appears from the form you’re working with Quinternet.”
“We always pay our bills on time and in full, and from I hear of some other networks this is worth mentioning.”
It seems rather bizarre to falsely hint towards Quinternet not paying their bills, whilst they are in the process of ripping me off for 1000’s of pounds.
On August 31st 2014 the full amount for all leads sent to Quiddi becomes owed. This totalled £20,737. At this point we had been paid £2,930, leaving a balance owed of £17,807.
On September 3rd we received an email from our bank telling us that Quiddi had attempted to wire £8,476 to our account. But that Quiddi had mislabelled the payment (wrong company name) and legally it would have to be returned to the sender. An email was sent to Ben informing him of this.
On september 4th an email was sent to Ben Lachenal asking why a ‘missing’ bank wire of over £8000 and our multiple complaints of having to repeatedly ask where our missing £17,000+ is have been ignored. We copied a senior member of Quiddi staff in.
On September 4th a cryptic email received from Ben stating
“Payment was made to the exact same details as last time, so I’ve instructed payment to be attempted again. ”
At this point we were still no clearer whether he is sending me £17,000+ or £8,000+. An email was sent to Ben asking him to answer this simple question; he never replied.
Now the blatant scamming by Ben Lachenal and Quiddi Begins
On September 4th 2014 we received this email from Ben Lachenal:
The above email is nothing more than ridiculous…. bear in mind how many times above he has confirmed that all is going well, our lead numbers are correct and based off £7.50 per lead. i.e. as an example:
“As for your leads you sent last week, of course we are still more than happy to honour the £7.50 offer.”
The original agreement was:
“i get what you’re saying. If you can send 100 leads per day and over, I’ll set a guarantee that you’ll get £7.50 EPL (minimum). ”
At no point did we agree this extra money was a bonus. It was a minimum amount we were going to be paid.
At this point its hard to describe what has went on as anything other than theft/fraud. Ben Lachenal agreed one thing, and then later tried to backtrack and refuse to pay. We feel at this point it has went way beyond a business dispute, and is now firmly a criminal offence by Ben Lachenal and/or Quiddi.
Now the Scamming gets bizarre
On September 9th we received this email from Ben:
Unfortunately the manager in question was away yesterday in meetings. I did, however, informally speak with management, presenting them with every email you have sent over the last two weeks. This was purely to hear their thoughts.
I’ve been trying to sort this situation out for you and come to a fair arrangement. The problem I encountered was, despite repeated efforts, you were unwilling to discuss sending traffic to Quiddi on a more long-term basis, even when you were clearly happy with the quoted figures, which made our original discussions surrounding figures unscalable. It was also difficult to progress with discussions after receiving abusive emails. The discussions over Skype were, of course, not a signed agreement.
Quiddi can, at any time, act on point 7.3 of the Affiliate Terms & Conditions, which you signed on the 23rd of June, 2014.
7.3 states that, Quiddi is within its rights to vary the rate of commission paid to an affiliate without notice.
With point 7.3 of the Affiliate Terms & Conditions in-mind, your rate of commission from Quiddi can be reduced to 1%, and the additional amount you are asking for can be paid in full. This would mean that, Quiddi would be fulfilling its obligations in terms of paying you the commission owed, plus honouring the unofficial offer of £7.50 per-lead.
This above is, of course, not what has been confirmed, it is just an option that is available.
I personally do not want the above to happen, and would like to discuss this matter with you again, in a more pleasant manner this time, if you are willing or indeed able to do so. I fully appreciate your position ME, and want to make sure we both are happy with the end result. This email is based on my own interpretations of the situation, and an official communication can be made, if you you would like.
I hope to hear from you soon”
Its simply bizarre to suggest their terms and conditions allow them to backdate pay cuts on affiliates. If they want to cut rates paid in the future, we have absolutely no problem with that. They can tell us they want to pay £x and we can either send them leads, or not.
Going with Bens interpretation of the agreement, he could say “every lead is going to be paid for at 1 pence each” and they could take £20,000+ of leads for a few pounds.
Ben follows this up with this email:
“Just following on from the previous email: If you would like to respond, please do so, and a full response will be made within seven days of receipt. “
At this point we felt he was just stalling for time. They owed us thousands of pounds yet are now saying it will take a week to respond to emails.
This email was sent to Ben to point out the above, and insisting we can speak to someone above him with authority to finally bring this matter to a close:
You might be able to vary the commission without notice, but you can’t fraudulently back date a commission cut. If you wanted to tell us from today the commission is 10 pence a lead, then fine thats within your rights. And we’ll simply not send you any more leads. There is no way you can continue to receive leads on the false pretence of us getting £7.50 for them, then change your mind later. You know full well that is exactly what happened, and when I post the chat logs publicly every other affiliate is going to see the exact same thing. Its going to look exactly like what it was – a dirty scam trick.
I’ve continually told you I’m not going to discuss new leads while your account is in default, and that hasn’t changed.
Also given your continued attempt to steal from us, if we ever send Quiddi further leads I’m going to need them pre-paid, or the money put in Escrow at your own cost.
Its unacceptable for your manager to just continually be ‘unavailable’, given the seriousness of the matter in question and the amount of money. Its not exactly a missing £50 that can just be dealt with when it suits, is it?
I’m still going to go public with all of this at the end of business today, unless I hear back from someone with authority to sort this before then.
Also, the email from Ben above included this silly comment:
The discussions over Skype were, of course, not a signed agreement.
So if the plan of a backdated pay cut doesn’t work out, he is going to switch tactics and say that an agreement over Skype doesn’t actually count. Despite there being a clear offer and acceptance, leads going through, payments made, and multiple confirmations that everything is as it should be.
David Evans, Business Development Director at Quiddi
On the 11th September we received an email from David Evans, business development director at Quiddi. He was looking for a phone call to take place to try and work towards a solution here. This went back and forward a little as from our side we feel that Ben Lachenal has been deliberately dishonest and deceptive and didn’t feel it was in our interests to now converse on the phone where we would have no record of what was said.
On the 12th September we received this email from David Evans:
Quiddi are Liars.
By now we are now at the undeniable point of Quiddi being liars. David Evans is saying Ben Lachenal had no authority to offer what he did, so Ben is a liar. Ben has clearly went the other way… he was repeatedly talking about speaking to management about our account and so on. So according to Ben, its David Evans that is the liar. Either way, someone at Quiddi is telling us lies.
Its bizarre either way.
If you believe Ben Lachenal then David Evans is willing to wreck the reputation of Quiddi over a small amount of money (under £10,000)
If you believe David Evans then Ben Lachenal deliberately defrauded an affiliate with a series of phantom commissions, over several months. As Ben was agreeing that these amounts were owed, yet if David is telling the truth they were never going to be paid. Obviously Ben would have known this… what was the exit strategy here? Cross his fingers and hope the affiliate wasn’t going to ask where his 10’s of thousands of pounds went? How could someone have possibly done that and not lost their job? That clearly didn’t happen, as according to Ben Lachenals LinkedIn profile he still works there.
Either way they are not putting themselves across as an honest company that we would want to continue to deal with.
QUIDDI OWE US £9,552
In total we sent £20,958 worth of leads to Quiddi, which was confirmed by Ben Lachenal. The missing £8,476 was re-sent again later, and we were also originally paid £2,930. This leaves an outstanding amount of £9,552.
Should you deal with Quiddi?
If you’re considering doing any business with Quiddi, please consider the following points.
- If it suits them, Quiddi will say “payments are at our discretion” and then not pay you.
- If it suits them, Quiddi will say agreements you made via Skype, are not actually valid.
- If it suits them, Quiddi will attempt to use a clause in their terms and conditions to fraudulently backdate pay cuts onto you.
- If it suits them, Quiddi will say “that Staff member wasn’t authorised to do that” and not pay you.
If anyone would like to contact us you can do so via this contact form.
13th March 2015 Update
Quiddi have hired a legal team:
|12:49 PM (3 hours ago)|
We refer to your recent correspondence with our clients regarding an alleged agreement to pay introduction fees, or commission, based upon leads introduced to their network. Our clients deny entering into an agreement on the terms alleged by you.
We refer you to the attached Affiliate Advertising and Lead Generation Agreement, the terms of which were agreed by you on 23 June 2014. Specifically we refer you to clauses 3.1.5, 7 and Schedule One. If you have any questions regarding the terms of this agreement, we recommend that you seek independent legal advice.
We note from your email dated 26 February 2015 that court proceedings have been threatened, or at least we presume that this is the meaning of going “down the legal route” (final paragraph of your email). Please note that you are required to serve a letter before claim accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct in advance of any such proceedings. Your letter should either be served on our clients at their registered office addresses or, if you prefer, you may send it to us at:
59 London Road
Given the terms of the Affiliate Advertising and Lead Generation Agreement, we would urge you to reconsider your threatened course of action (for the avoidance of any doubt, your threatened claim will be vigorously defended). However, if you wish to pursue the matter, we look forward to receiving the requested letter of claim from you or your solicitors in due course.
Please note that our clients fully reserve all rights.
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